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A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-Gödeled
OpposingArgument
1
#1107
The Gödelizing operator—to be programmable—must be specified by some finite rule. But in that case, the Gödelizing operator is itself formalisable. The resulting system can be shown to contain a formula that's true but can't be proven in the system.
So the Gödelizing procedure still holds against the self Gödelizing machine.
John Lucas (1961).
CONTEXT
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Artificial Intelligence »
Artificial Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence☜A collaboratively editable version of Robert Horns brilliant and pioneering debate map Can Computers Think?—exploring 50 years of philosophical argument about the possibility of computer thought.☜F1CEB7
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Are thinking computers mathematically possible? [7] »
Are thinking computers mathematically possible? [7]
Are thinking computers mathematically possible? [7]☜Is it mathematically possible for a computer to think as well as a human can? Does the mathematics of computation contain anything to prohibit machines from thinking?☜FFB597
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No: computers are limited by Gödel's theorems »
No: computers are limited by Gödel's theorems
No: computers are limited by Gödel's theorems☜Gödels theorem proves that a computer cant in principle operate with human understanding (see detailed text). Gödels incompleteness theorems are the Achilles heel of mechanism. John Lucas (1961).☜59C6EF
▲
Improved machines »
Improved machines
Improved machines☜A beefed-up machine can recognise the truth of the Gödel sentence. Such a machine defeats Lucass argument, because it shows that a formal system can evade Lucass Gödelizing ability.☜EF597B
▲
Self-referential machines »
Self-referential machines
Self-referential machines☜A self-referential machine can evaluate Gödel sentences for itself. Such a machine may evade the Lucas argument.☜98CE71
▲
Gödelizing operator can defeat Lucas's argument »
Gödelizing operator can defeat Lucas's argument
Gödelizing operator can defeat Lucas's argument☜Machine with a Gödelizing operator can carry out the Gödel procedure and add all its Gödel sentences to itself as theorums. It could recognise the truth of its Gödel sentence and any subsequent Gödel sentences that could be formed about the machine.☜98CE71
■
A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-Gödeled
A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-Gödeled☜The Gödelizing operator—to be programmable—must be specified by some finite rule. But in that case, the Gödelizing operator is itself formalisable. The resulting system can be shown to contain a formula thats true but cant be proven in the system.☜EF597B
●
Informal proof »
Informal proof
Informal proof☜A machine could, in principle, construct an informal proof of the truth of the Gödel sentence. So long as the machine doesnt regard such informal persuasions as proof proper, introducing them into its system wont lead to inconsistency.☜EF597B
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John Lucas »
John Lucas
John Lucas☜Arguments advanced by John Lucas.☜FFFACD
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Entered by:-
David Price
NodeID:
#1107
Node type:
OpposingArgument
Entry date (GMT):
8/29/2006 9:03:00 PM
Last edit date (GMT):
12/9/2007 4:24:00 PM
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