Views
Graph
Explorer
Focus
Down
Load 1 level
Load 2 levels
Load 3 levels
Load 4 levels
Load all levels
All
Dagre
Focus
Down
Load 1 level
Load 2 levels
Load 3 levels
Load 4 level
Load all levels
All
Tree
SpaceTree
Focus
Expanding
Load 1 level
Load 2 levels
Load 3 levels
Down
All
Down
Radial
Focus
Expanding
Load 1 level
Load 2 levels
Load 3 levels
Down
All
Down
Box
Focus
Expanding
Down
Up
All
Down
Page â
Article
Outline
Document
Down
All
Canvas
Time
Timeline
Calendar
Request email digest
Past 24 hours
Past 2 days
Past 3 days
Past week
Add
Add page
Add comment
Add citation
Edit
Edit page
Delete page
Share
Link
Bookmark
Embed
Social media
Login
Member login
Register now for a free account
đ
John Lucas
Protagonist
1
#2778
Arguments advanced by John Lucas.
CONTEXT
(Help)
-
Artificial Intelligence »
Artificial Intelligence
Artificial IntelligenceâA collaboratively editable version of Robert Horns brilliant and pioneering debate map Can Computers Think?âexploring 50 years of philosophical argument about the possibility of computer thought.âF1CEB7
▲
Protagonists »
Protagonists
ProtagonistsâThe contributions of over 300 protagonists can be explored via a surname search, or using the growing list developing here.âD3B8AB
■
John Lucas
John LucasâArguments advanced by John Lucas.âD3B8AB
►
Consciousness requires a point of view »
Consciousness requires a point of view
Consciousness requires a point of viewâA conscious machine could be built but only if built with a point of viewâevidenced by: homeostatic behaviour; holistic assessment of context and context dependent responses; and ascribing consciousness to it provided offered some explanatory power.âFFFACD
►
Gödel shows machines can't be fully conscious »
Gödel shows machines can't be fully conscious
Gödel shows machines can't be fully consciousâA machine needs a consciousness-producing partâeg a Gödelizing operatorâto understand its own Gödel sentence. Hence, machines can have partial consciousness at best; unlike humans, who dont need a special part to reflect on themselves.âFFFACD
►
Gödel sentences sufficiently self-referential »
Gödel sentences sufficiently self-referential
Gödel sentences sufficiently self-referentialâGödel sentences by themselves arent self-referential, but recognising their truth requires us to see them as self-referential. Machines lack this ability to see Gödel sentences as self-referentialâso cant recognise the truth of Gödel sentences.âFFFACD
►
Machines aren't self-critical »
Machines aren't self-critical
Machines aren't self-criticalâConsciousness should be construed in terms of the ability for self-critical thinkingâwhich requires a concept of truth. Because machines lack an adequate concept of truth, as Webb admits, they cant think critically in the way the humans can.âFFFACD
►
Lucas claims less than Wang's dilemma suggests »
Lucas claims less than Wang's dilemma suggests
Lucas claims less than Wang's dilemma suggestsâOnly those machines we know to be consistent are adequate candidates for models of the mindâand we can often tell this. Mechanists dont need to know the consistency of all machines, just that the ones presented to the mentalist are consistent.âFFFACD
►
Good misunderstands the game »
Good misunderstands the game
Good misunderstands the gameâThe games played with the machines designer not the machineâand is about what the mechanist, not the machine, can do. It shows that for any given mechanist machine, the mentalistâwho knows Gödelâs theoremâcan show that hes not that machine.âFFFACD
►
We don't need the entire Lucas arithmetic »
We don't need the entire Lucas arithmetic
We don't need the entire Lucas arithmeticâA mentalist doesnt have to produce all of the Lucas arithmetic. Its sufficient that he produce enough of the Lucas arithmetic to answer the mechanist at a given step of the game.âFFFACD
►
No: computers are limited by Gödel's theorems »
No: computers are limited by Gödel's theorems
No: computers are limited by Gödel's theoremsâGödels theorem proves that a computer cant in principle operate with human understanding (see detailed text). Gödels incompleteness theorems are the Achilles heel of mechanism. John Lucas (1961).âFFFACD
►
Un-Gödelizable machine wouldn't be a machine »
Un-Gödelizable machine wouldn't be a machine
Un-Gödelizable machine wouldn't be a machineâMachines behave in a determinate manner according to definite rules. But any such determinate machine is susceptible to the Gödelization procedure because its behaviour can be formalised. Any machine that cant be Gödelized isnt really a machine.âFFFACD
►
A dilemma about inductive machines »
A dilemma about inductive machines
A dilemma about inductive machinesâSeeking to avoid the Gödelization problem by making inductive machines results in a dilemma (see detailed text). An inductive machine isnt an adequate model of the mind.âFFFACD
►
Machine isn't capable of informal proof »
Machine isn't capable of informal proof
Machine isn't capable of informal proofâA machine isnt capable of informal proof in the human sense. No matter how informal a machines reasoning may appear to be, it will still be grounded in a formal system; so its informal proofs also formalisable, and subject to the Gödel procedure.âFFFACD
►
A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-Gödeled »
A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-Gödeled
A self-Gödelizing machine can still be out-GödeledâThe Gödelizing operatorâto be programmableâmust be specified by some finite rule. But in that case, the Gödelizing operator is itself formalisable. The resulting system can be shown to contain a formula thats true but cant be proven in the system.âFFFACD
►
A single person's understanding of Gödel is enough »
A single person's understanding of Gödel is enough
A single person's understanding of Gödel is enoughâThe power of reasoning demonstrated by a single person who understands Gödel theorem is sufficient to show that minds are different from machines.âFFFACD
►
Benacerrafâs argument is inconsistent »
Benacerrafâs argument is inconsistent
Benacerrafâs argument is inconsistentâBenacerraf cant consistently claim that no particular program represents me and at the same time that some program represents me.âFFFACD
►
Lucas sure that he isn't a machine »
Lucas sure that he isn't a machine
Lucas sure that he isn't a machineâThe arguments mistakenly cast as a nondialectical proof sequence, giving an incorrect conclusion that the man is machine but cant tell which machine he isâthe only way I can be sure of not being any particular machine is by not being one at all.âFFFACD
►
There are overriding reasons to regard minds as consistent »
There are overriding reasons to regard minds as consistent
There are overriding reasons to regard minds as consistentâHuttons argument for the inconsistency of mind is flawed (see detailed text).âFFFACD
►
An inconsistent machine can't model the mind »
An inconsistent machine can't model the mind
An inconsistent machine can't model the mindâAlthough its true Gödelâs theorem doesnt apply to inconsistent machines, this matters not as inconsistent machines cant model the mind. Human minds are geared for consistencyâthey seek it and use it as a norm for judging which beliefs to accept.âFFFACD
►
The mechanist's dilemma »
The mechanist's dilemma
The mechanist's dilemmaâThe Lucas argument can be restated as a dilemma about consistency (see detailed text).âFFFACD
◄
John Lucas »
John Lucas
John LucasâArguments advanced by John Lucas.âFFFACD
Heading
Summary
Click the button to enter task scheduling information
Open
Details
Enter task details
Message text
Select assignee(s)
Due date (click calendar)
RadDatePicker
RadDatePicker
Open the calendar popup.
Calendar
Title and navigation
Title and navigation
<<
<
April 2024
>
<<
April 2024
S
M
T
W
T
F
S
14
31
1
2
3
4
5
6
15
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
16
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
17
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
18
28
29
30
1
2
3
4
19
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
Reminder
No reminder
1 day before due
2 days before due
3 days before due
1 week before due
Ready to post
Copy to text
Enter
Cancel
Task assignment(s) have been emailed and cannot now be altered
Lock
Cancel
Save
Comment graphing options
Choose comments:
Comment only
Whole thread
All comments
Choose location:
To a new map
To this map
New map options
Select map ontology
Options
Standard (default) ontology
College debate ontology
Hypothesis ontology
Influence diagram ontology
Story ontology
Graph to private map
Cancel
Proceed
+Comments (
0
)
- Comments
Add a comment
Newest first
Oldest first
Show threads
+Citations (
0
)
- Citations
Add new citation
List by:
Citerank
Map
+About
- About
Entered by:-
David Price
NodeID:
#2778
Node type:
Protagonist
Entry date (GMT):
7/20/2007 6:12:00 PM
Last edit date (GMT):
7/20/2007 6:12:00 PM
Show other editors
Incoming cross-relations:
1
Outgoing cross-relations:
18
Average rating:
0
by
0
users
x
Select file to upload